DD, Track, Burn - This Time It's Personal

"Justin Hughes" (justinhughes54)
08/01/2016 at 12:52 • Filed to: None

My BRZ is awesome, but it’s no longer a good fit with my lifestyle. When I bought it, I was living the single life, had an apartment, and didn’t need to haul much beyond groceries. Now I’m married, have a house, live with my wife and her two kids, and have to haul a lot more stuff around, including towing a ramp trailer. Her Ford Flex saves our butts in the practicality department, but anytime I need to take more than one passenger somewhere, we can’t take my car. The position of the manual shifter in my BRZ causes her shoulder pain to use, so she can’t drive it. And I can’t tow the trailer, which means difficult or sometimes impossible scheduling to borrow the Flex when I need to haul motorcycles and stuff around.

I’m not ready to switch cars yet (it’ll take some time to recover from buying that house), but I have three replacement options in mind. Requirements are that they MUST be fun (I refuse to trade in the sports car for a minivan), have four doors and a usable back seat, and my wife must be able to drive it without pain. A manual is preferred, but I’d consider something else if it’s still fun.

Subaru WRX

This is, of course, the natural progression from a BRZ. When I compared them head-to-head, I decided that given the choice I’d get the WRX over the BRZ today. But what about among the other practical competitors?

Pros:

AWD. Not strictly necessary with a set of good snow tires, but nice to have.

Power. In stock form, it’s the most powerful of my options, and the AWD puts it all to the ground quite effectively.

Familiarity. I know Subarus in general pretty well, so this wouldn’t be a very big leap from what I’m already used to.

Because I’d be swapping a Subaru for a Subaru, maybe I could get a good deal.

Cons:

Not a hatchback. Subaru chose the worst time to offer the WRX/STi in only sedan form, with the Focus RS tromping the STi in practicality as well as power. But the WRX still passes the sit-behind-myself test.

Non-manual transmission is a CVT. If the manual hurts my wife to shift, I’m out of luck. My BRZ and I have caught and passed a WRX with a CVT on the track. It’s that much slower.

Ford Focus ST

We already have a Ford in the driveway, so why not add one of its siblings? I was also quite impressed with the bargain basement !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! we had. I could tell there was a decently performing car being held back by an old engine, a slushbox, and a suspension tuned for comfort, not corners. A modern version tuned for sportiness sounds quite promising.

Pros:

Hatchback. Super practical. A Fiesta is too small for my current needs, but the Focus would do the job.

EcoBoost. I’ve been quite impressed with Ford’s turbo motors in the Flex and the Mustang. Though slightly less powerful than the WRX, I’m sure it’ll work well.

This is probably the most sporty car of my choices. That’s a good thing. So are the optional Recaros, though I’m honestly not sure if I’d want them in a daily driver that would occasionally but rarely see the track.

This is the least expensive of my three choices. I was hoping it would get even cheaper with a flooded market from all those trade-ins on upgrades to the RS, but it doesn’t look like that’s happening. Still, it’s the most affordable option.

Cons:

It has the smallest back seat of the three options. It passes the sit-behind-myself test, but not by a lot.

Manual only. It’s a good stick, but if my wife can’t drive it, I can’t do it.

Volkswagen GTI

I was quite impressed with my friend’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . I don’t need, nor can afford, that much car, but for a whole lot less money, I can get maybe 80% of that car. That’s plenty of car for me.

Pros:

Best back seat. Legroom is as good as the WRX, but the roof doesn’t slope down like the WRX or Focus, so the GTI has Max Headroom.

Dynamic Chassis Control. Want to attack the twisties? Put it in sport mode to stiffen the shocks. On a crappy, potholed city street? Put it in comfort mode to improve the ride. Not standard, but it’s an option I’d want.

Available DSG transmission. I’d definitely want to test drive both a stick and a DSG, but if the wife can’t manage the stick, the DSG would be an option. We can both handle paddles, or just leave it in automatic for driving in traffic and the city.

It’s basically a German sport sedan, but with a hatch instead of a trunk, and a much lower price tag than a BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. Probably the most comfortable and refined on a daily basis. And it’s possible we could find a deal because Dieselgate.

Cons:

It’s sporty, but the least sporty car in the list. That’s partly why it’s the most refined, though.

VW doesn’t have the best reputation for quality and reliability. Repairs will be more expensive because it’s German.

At only 210hp (220 with the Performance Package), it’s by far the least powerful car in this group. A simple tune will put it over 300 - more than the Golf R - but the stock clutch won’t hold up to that. Unless it’s a DCT, which will...

So there you have it. I keep changing my mind several times a day about which of these I’d want in my driveway.

DISCUSSION (59)

Nick Has an Exocet > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 12:58

WRX because as an adult, you love resale value.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 12:59

DD: Miata

Race: Miata

Burn: all other cars besides Rx-7

Party-vi > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 12:59

You really think the autobox in the GTI will stand up to 300hp better than the manual transmission and clutch? There’s a reason tuned DSG GTIs have similar performance times to stock models - the DSG will limit torque in order to save itself from grenading. You’ll need a DSG tune to get the most out of it.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:01

This was my short list and pretty much word-for-word my pros and cons when buying this year.

GTI with DSG won for my daily. I would think the WRX would be the best track car, with the AWD, so I guess burn the FoST . . . but I really liked that, too.

RallyWrench > Party-vi
08/01/2016 at 13:02

This is true, but I have to say, the DSG has been a remarkably durable transmission in my experience, including in flashed cars.

Tohru > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:02

Have you thought about just replacing the wife? Might be cheaper...

Anyways, back on topic:

DD the Focus.

Track the Subaru.

Burn the VW. VW will be an orphan in America in 5 years.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:03

Daily the WRX (still haven’t driven current gen, but the old one didn’t do anything for me driving-wise)

Track the ST

The Hitlermobile will catch fire on its own from an electrical short.

DutchieDC2R > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:04

Im looking at a previous generation Ford Focus ST for as a future option....

I’d DD the wrx and track the Focus......the VW, I’d burn to the ground until there are only ashes left, f*ck the GTI.

RallyWrench > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:07

DD the GTI, track the ST, burn the WRX. The WRX and ST are interchangeable in those positions, really, though the WRX is more refined and useful than the ST. The VW is by far the nicest car to spend time in of the three.

A stock GTI clutch will take a lot if you drive it well. They’re really not that bad to take care of either, but they’re not without issue. If a DSG, bear in mind it needs a service every 40k, and the fluid is over $20 per liter.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:07

DD the GTI, because most comfortable and best interior, while still able to do 250 km/h on the Autobahn all day. My parents have got one as a second car, so I’m biased.

Rally the WRX.

Burn the FoST, mainly because I do not like the center console at all. Same complaint with the FiST.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > RallyWrench
08/01/2016 at 13:07

How long have they actually been around at this point? It seems like alot of claims of durability these days are “Yep, it lasted through the two year lease period.”

Chasaboo > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:11

From best to worst 1) Subaru 2) Ford 3) VW.

DasWauto > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/01/2016 at 13:14

Fairly sure the DSG has been around since the Mk V GTI, the oldest of which will have crested 10 years of age.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/01/2016 at 13:15

Mine’s 11 years old, has 110k miles on it, and the DSG has never missed a beat (touch wood). Stock tune, though.

chilichez > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:15

Kinja'd!!!

I have a MK6 4 door with a stick. Best of both worlds. Can swallow 2 mountain bikes. Adults can sit in the back seat. Heard the MK7 with the performance package is better.

Also autocross it, pretty competitive car in GS. Folks with an ST can beat you if they know what they are doing (more HP, wider tires, no nanny computers on the ass end of the car) and PAX will help you over a Subaru as they are DS, but I have won a couple this year and having fun wringing the car out. Understand the MK7s are far better for this kind of event.

Ride on the street is no contest. That matters in a small car. Best of luck with your decision!

Captain of the Enterprise > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:15

I'd go WRX but I get the hatchback concern. What causes your wife pain to drive? That might be the most important factor

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:16

I wanted a BRZ.

I looked at all these, well not the WRX because no hatch. The Focus felt too big, and I hate the interior. Similar story with the FiST, weird seating position and unpleasing interior.

I bought a GTI. 6MT, 4-door, with PP. No regrets thus far.

Cow-orker has a 6MT Golf R with a 93-only tune. He drives it like it should be driven and after 5k miles on the tune there is zero sign of any clutch problems.

RallyWrench > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/01/2016 at 13:17

The oldest are now 11 years old and well past 200,000 miles in my client’s cars, those being GTIs, Audi A3s, and Golf/Jetta TDIs. I’ve never needed to take apart or replace one. A couple of cars have needed flywheels, but that’s it. They’ve been a remarkably good gearbox considering the level of performance they give.

DasWauto > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/01/2016 at 13:18

Ease off the Hitler rhetoric, it is outdated and offensive.

Monkey B > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:18

Is the Focus ST available with an auto? I didn’t think it was.

sony1492 > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:19

. . .

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > DasWauto
08/01/2016 at 13:25

You’re right. My bad.

iaintafraidofnoghost > DasWauto
08/01/2016 at 13:26

What?

The Dummy Gummy > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:28

I’d go WRX, but I’m biased. I like the first two, not the last one for an unbiased opinion.

I would actually probably own a ST if I didn’t live in a place that got a lot of snow fall.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:30

It appears you’re buying new right?

May I make an unrequested recommendation? What about the new Fusion Sport. AWD + fun power.

In regards to the actual question:

I would say to just buy the WRX, sounds like the Focus (which I would’ve recommended) won’t meet your needs despite it being my preference from the list.

And then RallyX the WRX as well as DD it.

Tripper > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:41

DD the GTI

As someone else said the WRX and ST are interchangeable, but I would track the WRX because its the car with which I am the most familiar.

Later FoST

ScoobsMcGee > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:50

Having driven all three while cross-shopping, you really can’t go wrong here. If I had to live with just one of them, I’d probably suggest the GTI. It was by far the nicest cabin to sit in, was still very fun, and had the practicality of the hatch. The WRX was the one I enjoyed driving the most, but I can’t say for certain if that is objective or my fanboi-ism. The WRX will likely retain its value more than the other two as well, if that matters to you. The FoST is way more fun and well optioned than its price would suggest, and is the cheapest up front expense.

jjhats > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 13:52

this is basically the dilemma every single focus st owner went through. for some reason though GTI owners and wrx owners don’t look at the ST. Im obviously biased but the dirt nasty low prices of used ST is too good to pass up. its stupid fun and quick for daily duties and will handle the track if you upgrade some things. if buying new I would do GTI cuz dieselgate but used I would do ST. and I don't trust wrx reliability and they look like poop

Justin Hughes > Party-vi
08/01/2016 at 14:15

I’m told that VW designs their stock clutches to withstand stock horsepower, and that’s about it. That goes for the GTI and the Golf R. So yeah, you can flash a 300hp tune in, but then your clutch goes. Flash the stock tune back in, take it in for warranty repair, and they can deny it because they know what really happened. That’s why they design them that way.

At least, that’s what I’ve been told.

Justin Hughes > Tohru
08/01/2016 at 14:16

Divorce is never cheap. Besides, we just got married in March...

Dusty Ventures > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 14:16

Option 4: wait two years

Kinja'd!!!

Justin Hughes > Captain of the Enterprise
08/01/2016 at 14:19

Something about the angle and effort of the shifter. I understand the angle thing. You sit so low in the BRZ that the shifter is almost at the same height as the steering wheel, rather than having to reach down for it. It also hasn’t been shifting as well as it should lately, so I’m going to upgrade the transmission fluid soon. That should help me, and maybe help her too.

Justin Hughes > Monkey B
08/01/2016 at 14:20

Nope, it’s not. So if she can’t drive it, it’s off the list.

Justin Hughes > The Dummy Gummy
08/01/2016 at 14:21

I get snow, but it doesn’t bother me. I drive a BRZ year round now. I just put on the snow tires, find an empty parking lot, turn off traction control, and play!

Justin Hughes > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
08/01/2016 at 14:22

New or newish. I’d actually prefer newish to let someone else take the off-the-lot depreciation hit, but we’re talking current generations of all.

I’d definitely consider the Fusion Sport, but it may be priced beyond my range.

Justin Hughes > Dusty Ventures
08/01/2016 at 14:26

I saw that too, but is that an official announcement on an official account? I hope so. More power and a hatch are exactly what the STi needs.

Nonster > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 14:28

I don’t have any experience with the Focus or the WRX, but I’ll throw in my 2 cents on the GTI. YMMV, but nearly every VW I’ve ever spent any time with (cars of friends and family) has had a multitude of issues that were very costly to fix. This includes a Beetle Convertible, a Jetta, a Passat, and a 2014 GTI. So I would avoid the VW due to concerns about reliability.

Not saying all VW’s are bad, just every one that I’ve sampled....

Party-vi > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 14:28

Well shit balls. Good thing I don’t have a GTI.

gawdzillla > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 14:51

Burn the GTi, it’s the worst of the 3 in all regards, drive both the wrx and the ST, I would bet your decision is for the wrx being that you are already familiar with subies.

The ST felt underpowered.

I was just reading how easy this guy fit 2x4's into the wrx

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/08/2016-s…

Textured Soy Protein > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 15:22

Dark horse candidate: used BMW X1 28i M Sport.

Kinja'd!!!

It doesn’t do so great on the sit-behind-yourself test, but it’s small, relatively light, has the 240 hp turbo 4 paired with the 8-speed ZF. Just might take a bit of work finding an M Sport and then you’ll want to promptly destroy the run-flat tires.

Captain of the Enterprise > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 15:34

Props to you by the way for helping out with her kids that's very good of you

notsomethingstructural > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 15:37

Considered the Mazdaspeed3 at all? It’s a year or so older than these, but it should smoke the GTI on the track and the WRX in practicality. Runs about dead even with the ST, but it too is manual only and I dunno where the shifter is. Though I drove an older one and it was pretty conventional.

DasWauto > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
08/01/2016 at 15:59

Thanks for understanding. Cheers.

Justin Hughes > notsomethingstructural
08/01/2016 at 15:59

We had a Mazda 3 rental in Montreal for a week and a half.

http://www.rightfootdown.com/cars/reviews/c…

I liked it, and similar to the Focus I can feel the performance potential through the cushy rental car config. Unfortunately the back seat is too small for her growing kids. Otherwise a ‘Speed3 would definitely be on my list.

Arrivederci > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:00

As I also have a BRZ, I’ve had the same consideration for getting a daily, but mine would have me keep the BRZ as well. For the three you have listed, I would order them as thus:

1) WRX manual
2) FoST manual
3) GTI manual
4) GTI DSG
5) WRX CVT

Full disclosure: I loathe CVTs.

That said, why not keep the BRZ and add an older reliable car to the fleet?

Tohru > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:05

Oh, so you’re still within the return period. Did you keep your receipt? The minister should’ve given it to you.

DasWauto > iaintafraidofnoghost
08/01/2016 at 16:07

Calling the GTI a Hitlermobile is outdated rhetoric and offensive because beyond the name modern VW bears no real relation to the company the Nazis started.

Justin Hughes > Arrivederci
08/01/2016 at 16:11

That is another option entirely, and a reasonable one. We would’ve kept our 2002 Focus if a friend in need hadn’t gotten screwed over in an accident settlement and needed a good cheap car. I would’ve used it as my winter beater to keep the BRZ out of the salt. We probably would’ve rallycrossed the hell out of it, too, just for fun.

I didn’t know the IS300 was selling so cheap these days. And since I’d still have the BRZ an automatic would totally be an option. Hmm...

Justin Hughes > Tohru
08/01/2016 at 16:18

My ex-father-in-law (first wife’s father) suggested getting the divorce at the same time as the marriage to see if I could get a discount, just in case I needed it later. I should’ve listened to him. :)

notsomethingstructural > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:21

I’m not sure about the ‘16 hatches (which should really just be shooting brakes), but I’ve sat in the back seat of some of the ‘09-era ones and found it comfortable, and I’m 6'5". The ‘10's to ‘13's were just facelifts on the same platform. It’s definitely not a full-size, but still.

Anyways, I’ve test driven a few of the first-gen’s and I’ve always been impressed. The turbo feels like it’ll never run out and the suspension is great on smooth roads. Little jumpy if you’re trying to put power down on rough streets but still a mean little car.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:23

Ahh, gotcha.

If you’re considering AutoX only instead of RallyX can I give another out of the box recommendation?

The MKZ with the top motor and AWD and the right set of tires HAULS ASS around tracks. If you want a surprise/sleeper (that’s already had the depreciation hit) look for a lightly used MKZ. I promise you’ll be the first to driver to really push it.

Justin Hughes > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
08/01/2016 at 16:31

That’s definitely an option I hadn’t considered. Interesting...

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:39

So, some people gave Ford shit for swapping on performance summer tires, but the truth is, they were actually a factory option.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/…

And it went through the slalom faster than an M5. 1 mph off a Porsche 911.

In an MKZ!!!

Definite sleeper status too.

Arrivederci > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 16:47

Those old IS300's are great cars and about 98% were automatics; however, the opportunity does exist to possibly find the ultra-rare unicorn manual variant. Either way, you get that silky smooth and damn near indestructible 2JZ-GE.

One thing you’d want to check is if the kids fit in the back seat, they were tight in those cars. Not sure how old they are and a rear-facing seat could be a pinch.

iaintafraidofnoghost > DasWauto
08/01/2016 at 18:53

Well to be fair, it was started by Hitler. Bringing up their past isn’t offensive, it just is. It isn’t like he made a dark comment.

DasWauto > iaintafraidofnoghost
08/01/2016 at 19:36

I’m aware it was started by the Nazis but modern VW has so little relation to the original company that it’s not a fair association.

After the war, the factory/company was run by the British army (they’re the ones that actually put the beetle into production) and later given to the West German/Lower Saxony governments. Anything the company created since then should therefore not be linked to Hitler (beyond the history of the name) and calling a modern VW a hitlermobile is quite rude.

On the other hand, calling the original Beetle, Schwimwagen, Kubelwagen (and by relation, the Thing) Hitlermobiles wouldn’t really be an issue to me - while still a bit crude and unneccesary, it is technically correct as those are direct products of Hitler’s VW.

iaintafraidofnoghost > DasWauto
08/01/2016 at 20:11

Fair enough. I guess we can all be offended by something so innocuous these days. Sorry, he made a bad comment and I contributed to it further.

DasWauto > iaintafraidofnoghost
08/01/2016 at 21:15

S’all good. We’ve all got things that are important to us and less so to others.

Ultimately, I just wanted to encourage not unnecessarily hating on a particular car brand that you (Sidewaysondirt, in this case) may not like when there are others who do.

Racin'Jason001 > Justin Hughes
08/01/2016 at 21:35

These are good options!

I think you should also consider a 2013-15 Honda Civic Si Sedan:

Hope this helps! Subaruwrxfan did own a BRZ, but lost it to financial problems. He almost bought an ST, but ended up getting a MINI. Don’t get a MINI. He now owns a Mustang because he doesn’t have kids yet. He will own a WRX one day, though.